7/2: Don’t Know Much About History?

July 2, 2010 by  
Filed under Celebrations, Celebrations Polls, Featured, Living

There’s good news for American education.  About three-quarters of residents — 74% — know the U.S. declared its independence from Great Britain in 1776.  The bad news for the academic system — 26% do not.  This 26% includes one-fifth who are unsure and 6% who thought the U.S. separated from another nation.  That begs the question, “From where do the latter think the U.S. achieved its independence?”  Among the countries mentioned are France, China, Japan, Mexico, and Spain.

©istockphoto.com/Kaupang

©istockphoto.com/Kaupang

Table: Country from Which U.S. Declared Independence

Marist Poll Methodology

Check out The Marist Poll’s mention on Countdown with Keith Olbermann

Comments

161 Responses to “7/2: Don’t Know Much About History?”

  1. grand on July 2nd, 2010 1:01 pm

    Or it could be that as much as 26% of respondents found the survey question so absurd that they intentionally gave incorrect answers.

    Or it could be that 26% of respondents misheard the question or had a technical error.

    Or it could be that 26% of respondents have a non-Euro-centric view of history. For instance, how does a Native American interpret the concept of US independence? Their people were hear first, and their lands were taken away from them. They might interpret the question very differently, and may even find the suggestion of US ‘independence’ offensive.

    Consider also that many parts of the US were formerly colonies of other nations, in particular, the French and Spanish, and rather than ‘winning their independence’ they were purchased or won in other wars (see for instance: The Louisiana Territory, Texas, Alaska).

  2. John Hager on July 2nd, 2010 2:08 pm

    The author of this entry should not be too prideful about his or her own education. The author has misunderstood and misused the phrase “begs the question.” The phrase means to base an answer on an assumption that itself is unproven. It does not mean “invites the obvious question.” So the ironic subtitle could have been “Don’t know much about the English Language.”

  3. William on July 2nd, 2010 2:53 pm

    .. scary ..

  4. K. Smith on July 2nd, 2010 3:48 pm

    Careful yourself there, Mr. Hager! While you are quite right that “begs the question” derives from “petitio principii” and originally had the meaning you set forth, language is a funny thing. Meanings change through usage. This alternative use is rather widespread. Moreover, you yourself understood the concept the author sought to convey. Insofar as language is a communicative act, mission accomplished. While this use of “begs the question” is probably still ill-advised in formal writing, I’d be cautious about going so far as saying the author “misused” the phrase.

  5. Magister on July 2nd, 2010 4:28 pm

    @grand: …or how many of the respondents were educated in the US?

  6. Brad LeVeck on July 2nd, 2010 4:30 pm

    Ok… two points.
    1) The post acts like a respondents saying they are “unsure” is the same as “doesn’t know”, but looking at the crosstabs, there is a huge gender gap on the unsure response. This makes it likely that “unsure” is mostly picking up a difference in willingness to attempt an answer, not a true difference in knowledge.
    2) How is this any news for the US educational system? Read your own methodology. Marist made no attempt to exclude respondents based on whether they had been educated in the US or not.

  7. Who did we declare independence from again? « Data Analytics, Dashboard Design, Boston and New England on July 2nd, 2010 5:52 pm

    [...] fourth of July is Independence Day in the US. 1,004 US residents were asked who independence was declared from. The results? A little concerning, shall we say. [...]

  8. Beefeater on July 2nd, 2010 5:59 pm

    Great Britain is an island, not a country. We gained indepence from the United Kingdom.

  9. Kyorosuke on July 2nd, 2010 6:19 pm

    grand @ 1:

    Nice apologetics. You don’t really believe that, do you? You know as well as I do that you’re just trying to pretend that a full quarter of America’s population are g*****n idiots.

    John Hager @ 2:

    Yes, you’re technically correct. He should have said “raises the question”. But the fact is that “begs” has been used and understood that way, and not in the technical sense, for an extremely long time. You knew what he meant and so did everyone else, so get over yourself. Not to mention the fact “begs the question” is itself a mistranslation of the French which makes essentially no sense in English. Only idiotic stubbornness and pretentious s**** like you have kept an utterly unintuitive piece of language fluffery alive.

  10. Kyorosuke on July 2nd, 2010 6:20 pm

    That should be “… population *aren’t* …”.

  11. Doug on July 2nd, 2010 7:11 pm

    The Marist Poll asked: “On July 4th we celebrate Independence Day. From which country did the United States win its independence?”

    The question seems to pretty much exclude the Louisiana Purchase (1803), Texas (1845), and Alaska (1867), none of which could conceivably be thought of in the context of “win its independence.”

    And given that Native Americans account for less than 1% of the population (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/race/censr-28.pdf), I would suspect any responses they provided didn’t skew the results all that much.

  12. Carol on July 2nd, 2010 7:53 pm

    In other news, 26% of people polled support the Tea Party.

  13. Robert Lynch on July 2nd, 2010 8:06 pm

    grand (1st comment) is a total moron who has obviously been overschooled in sensitivity training and failed to learn some basic facts. ‘Euro-centric view of history’ – what on earth are you talking about? It was England that the 13 colonies of the United States gained independence from. This is not subject to some type of post modern interpretation. It is a fact and if you think they accientally polled 26% indians, you are mental. What is another possible answer?

  14. Greg Koelke on July 2nd, 2010 8:10 pm

    Young people don’t care about who we won our independence from 220 some years ago. If they need to know they can just google it. And yet, I bet my neighbor kids (3 and 2nd graders) can answer that question without hesitation if it is asked in a manner in which they understand what’s being asked. I would guess most midwestern kids can answer this. Why is that?

  15. A on July 2nd, 2010 8:14 pm

    @Beefeater:
    The “United Kingdom” didn’t come into being until later, when Ireland was added. In 1776 the political entity of England, Scotland, and Wales was known as the Kingdom of Great Britain.

  16. Independence Day Weekend « The Confluence on July 2nd, 2010 8:43 pm

    [...] Day Weekend Posted on July 2, 2010 by dakinikat A Marist poll found that about 26% don’t know who from who the U.S. declared independence in 1776. The bad [...]

  17. Justyn Tyme on July 2nd, 2010 8:44 pm

    I’m not sure they actually teach this lesson in school. It’s simply assumed that everyone knows it. I of course know it, but I don’t recall ever having been taught it in school. I simply picked it up by osmosis from our culture, growing up.

  18. Jim on July 2nd, 2010 9:21 pm

    @A: You mean, Northern Ireland.

  19. Jim on July 2nd, 2010 9:23 pm

    Correction, my mistake. The whole Ireland was part of the UK for a time.

    I would like to see this same poll run in the UK, or at least in England. Might be interesting.

  20. ‘The Second Day of July, 1776, Will Be the Most Memorable Epocha in the History of America…’ | The American Culture on July 2nd, 2010 9:28 pm

    [...] and, when the sun goes down, plenty of fireworks. I love the fellowship. I’m dismayed at the ignorance of some of my fellow Americans, of course. But I think the holiday can serve an educational purpose without dampening the [...]

  21. Stephen on July 2nd, 2010 10:36 pm

    How did all this discussion miss such an obvious error as the mis-use of the word “hear” in the 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph?
    “Their people were hear first, their lands taken from them…..”
    The correct useage is “here”.
    I, for one don’t think this was a typo given all the other mis-information posited by the writer. I don’t think the writer knows the between the two spellings. Another case of being taught ‘sensitivity’ over being taught facts. It is a safe bet the writer is under 30.

  22. C B on July 2nd, 2010 11:26 pm

    I actually checked this poll question and found 2 of the 3 I asked DID NOT KNOW the answer. I chose the “average” Americans to ask as they were family members I knew got average grades in school.

    One in particulay gave me three different answers before saying..”did we ever even gain our independence from another country?” He thought the U.S. was always it’s own soveriegn territory.

  23. “Independence,” As Defined By 1 in 4 Of Us | Reconstitution 2.0 on July 3rd, 2010 4:23 am

    [...] new Marist poll shows that 26% of people in this country don’t know that the U.S. declared its independence [...]

  24. Poll: 26% of Americans Don’t Understand Independence Day on July 3rd, 2010 7:46 am

    [...] would help explain at least 26% of the people who voted for President Barack Obama.From Mediaite:According to a Marist poll, 26 percent of Americans are a bit confused about why exactly this weekend is a cause for [...]

  25. Raven on July 3rd, 2010 9:38 am

    I must admit that if I were polled on the street about this very question, I’d be strongly tempted to answer sarcastically something like “Outer Mongolia” — which would duly add to the “bad news” statistic….

    So how much of a factor is simply *snark*?

  26. Happy 4th of July! « Under the Mountain Bunker & Coffee Shop on July 3rd, 2010 9:40 am

    [...] new Marist poll shows that 26% of people in this country don’t know who the U.S. declared its independence [...]

  27. EdwardS on July 3rd, 2010 10:09 am

    In addition to 18- to 29-year olds (40%), it seems that non-whites (44%, vs. 18% of whites) and women (33%, vs. 19% of men) are particularly clueless.

  28. Carr on July 3rd, 2010 11:14 am

    grand

    BTW Texas came into the Union neither by purchase nor war, it being a free nation in its own right came in by choice. besides that was a long time after the 13 colonies won Independence from England.

  29. Mike Constitution on July 3rd, 2010 11:41 am

    The great Americans that make up the Tea Party movement understand history, know we declared independence from England, and support and defend our Constitution. We know our Constitution protects our inalienable rights from the brute force of government. And, by the way, native Americans were not the only indigenous people that were too weak and backwards to resist assimilation by a superior culture. It is the natural progression of human history and has occurred on every continent. Get over it.

  30. Walter on July 3rd, 2010 12:13 pm

    Carol, let’s touch base this November 3rd.

  31. Greg on July 3rd, 2010 12:18 pm

    More to the point, how many responders were educated in government run schools?

  32. DJ on July 3rd, 2010 12:20 pm

    This is the same trash that elected Obama!

    Thanks public schools!

  33. SpiderMike on July 3rd, 2010 12:22 pm

    Just more proof that teachers are an overpaid bunch of whining incompetents.

  34. Odysseus on July 3rd, 2010 12:22 pm

    We obviously need to give trillions more to teachers’ unions. Good thing we have a president who is in the unions’ back pocket.

  35. jared on July 3rd, 2010 12:28 pm

    It’s just a poll people. many of you should get down off your high horse before criticizing the author if an article intended to get people to read. It seems the 26% of idiots ar well represented in this comment section.

  36. 29Victor on July 3rd, 2010 12:29 pm

    The excuses left here for the poor state of American education help to explain the poor state of American education.

  37. HB on July 3rd, 2010 12:35 pm

    There are obviously a large number of History teachers commenting on the results of this poll because I can not believe so many people are willing to make excuses for these appalling results.

  38. Gordon on July 3rd, 2010 12:35 pm

    #1: Before you write any more, learn the difference between ‘here’ and ‘hear’.

  39. Mark on July 3rd, 2010 12:41 pm

    Carol:

    “In other news, 26% of people polled support the Tea Party.”

    Actually, I bet that about 99% of the 26% are Obama voters. Tea Party supporters (and conservatives in general) generally have some familiarity with the Declaration of Independence.

  40. MrBuddwing on July 3rd, 2010 12:47 pm

    Previous poster: “In other news, 26% of people polled support the Tea Party.”

    As in “Boston Tea Party”? A rather ironic (if not convoluted) way to try to portray the Tea Partiers as being made up exclusively of ignoramuses.

  41. Bill R. on July 3rd, 2010 12:49 pm

    First, the Louisiana Purchase has nothing to do with our declaring independence. Nor does anything else that came later. Grand, you’re an idiot if you actually believe some of those things you wrote. Thee is no such thing as a Native American, they just got here before us and they were warring among themselves for a long time before we came along. Last, I know quite a few immigrants and they probably know our history better than the average native born American. They had to take a citizenship test.

  42. Phil on July 3rd, 2010 12:52 pm

    @Confluence, @Beefeater:
    The “United Kingdom” didn’t come into being until later, when Ireland was added. In 1776 the political entity of England, Scotland, and Wales was known as the Kingdom of Great Britain.

    Actually, it was called “The United Kingdom of Great Britain”. When Ireland was added in 1800, it became “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”.

  43. Wil on July 3rd, 2010 12:54 pm

    This survey result might be because 26% of the respondents were illegal aliens, who could barely speak English. They thought they were ordering take-out food when they were taking this survey.

  44. Jim on July 3rd, 2010 12:56 pm

    Carol

    Let’s take 10 Tea Party members and 10 average Obama voters and ask the question. I will bet 10 grand to your life savings of 50 bucks that no fewer than 9 tea party members know the answer and 5 or less average Obama voters know it. Let’s roll.

  45. Dave on July 3rd, 2010 12:58 pm

    @Beefeater: sorry to disagree; but we did in fact gain our independence from Great Britain (created when James the VII of Scotland also became James I of England ca 1701). The “United Kingdom” doesn’t come into existence until passage of the Act of Union in the Year of Our Lord 1800.

  46. BJ on July 3rd, 2010 12:59 pm

    They should have followed up with the 26% with the question: Whom did you vote for in the 2008 Presidential contest? I’m guessing 100% would say Obama.

  47. Jason on July 3rd, 2010 1:06 pm

    I’m not sure which worries me more: the results of this poll or the bone-headed attempts by some comments here to rationalize it. Frank Zappa was right: the most abundant element in the universe is not hydrogen but stupidity.

  48. Apostle of Q'in on July 3rd, 2010 1:08 pm

    Actually, I would argue that “native Americans” are all people born in the Americas, and in this context all US citizens born in the US. The American Indians are hardly “native”. They also immigrated at once point and there from three directions. Asia (via Alaska), South Pacific and, that’s the big bummer, Europe. Then they all mixed, and some time later the Europeans came again.

  49. Ryan Anthony on July 3rd, 2010 1:10 pm

    @grand . . . Robert’s already said most of what I had to say – and very well, too – so I’ll just fire off two things:

    1. The I-D-10-T error is the only kind of “technical error” I know that would preclude answering a straightforward question which doesn’t have more than one answer.

    2. The Louisiana Purchase, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and such and such were made AFTER the US won its independence. Not before. You’re confusing the creation of a whole new country for the addition of states to a particular country, and worse yet making excuses for people to do so.

    Your reasoning is off-the-charts, amazingly, without a doubt pathetic.

    Let me guess, you were educated in a public school with far-left faculty. Am I right?

  50. A Quarter of Americans Have No Idea What We’re Celebrating This Weekend. « The Oldspeak Journal on July 3rd, 2010 1:26 pm

    [...] celebrating, and, by extension, the country they live in? As July 4 approaches this Sunday, a Marist poll shows that 26 percent of Americans, including 40 percent of 18- to 29-year-olds, don’t know [...]

  51. Don’t Know Much About History : Delaware Liberal on July 3rd, 2010 1:26 pm

    [...] Here’s something to make you feel warm and fuzzy about America: There’s good news for American education. About three-quarters of residents — 74% — know the U.S. declared its independence from Great Britain in 1776. The bad news for the academic system — 26% do not. This 26% includes one-fifth who are unsure and 6% who thought the U.S. separated from another nation. That begs the question, “From where do the latter think the U.S. achieved its independence?” Among the countries mentioned are France, China, Japan, Mexico, and Spain. [...]

  52. Chamomile on July 3rd, 2010 1:27 pm

    Carol, you are purposefully and intentionally misinformed about the Tea Party from the pro-liberal media (and, most likely, your own political ideology).

    The Tea Party members give out booklets of the Constitution to the crowds to read and also advocate the reading of the Federalist Papers as primary sources.

    Tea Party members are better informed than most Americans regarding our country’s founding as they are proponents of returning to our Constitutionally limited federal government.

  53. JKD on July 3rd, 2010 1:29 pm

    And 113% of the 26% was registered by ACORN to vote for Obama.

  54. malclave on July 3rd, 2010 1:31 pm

    “In other news, 26% of people polled support the Tea Party.”

    And in still more news, 45% of people polled support Barry Obama. There is a theory, though, that many of these people found the question so absurd that they intentionally gave an incorrect answer. Otherwise, there’s really no explanation for responses so incongruous with reality.

  55. JDW on July 3rd, 2010 1:31 pm

    Let the libs say what they want about all the stupid yokels. I guarantee the yokels at least know of our won independence from the English. The liberal base, however? You know, the urban folk? Walk down the streets of any major inner city in America and ask them who we declared and won independence from. If you don’t get insulted, threatened, robbed, stabbed or handed a rumpled Obama ’08 bumper sticker, they probably wouldn’t know they answer. 26% is optimistic. But yes, they still get to vote. And yes, we know who they will vote for every single time.

  56. kathryn hoppiing on July 3rd, 2010 1:32 pm

    Polls need to be taken with a big grain of salt. Unless you know the demographics, the language used, etc. we should never accept poll answers as some kind of Cassandra utterance. That said, when I was substitute-teaching for k-8, i found that the one subject that i could drop from the curriculum was History. Why? Because it was not a tested subject in the “no child left behind”-mandated tests. If i were running out of time, then history was the first casualty.

  57. Liz on July 3rd, 2010 1:44 pm

    I’m finding most of the comments very disgusting, either saying it really doesn’t matter or somehow this was a trick question. Let’s be REALLY clear: This is NOT a trick question, even the dumbest American with the lowest IQ should be able to answer it and it is a VERY big deal. People who are this ignorant cannot remain free. Stupidity and freedom don’t mix. Do you think these lazy, ignorant people know what their constitutional rights are? Do you think they have any idea what their government can or can not do to them? Liberals who run the public schools have been dumbing down our children for decades. Why? Stupid people are easily led by government tyrants and government is the liberals’ god.

  58. fred on July 3rd, 2010 1:51 pm

    democratic voters have to come from somwhere. that 26% is their base. if we educated enough people, there would be no need for the dem party. come on. let them have something.

  59. rebecca on July 3rd, 2010 1:53 pm

    My six year old daughter asked, “do these people vote, Mommy?”

  60. fred on July 3rd, 2010 1:55 pm

    robert lynch: why would indians care about our indepedence. i think they are more concerend with their independence from great brit in 1947 (or 1950 depending on how you slice it). or did you mean “native americans”? i think you need some sensitivity training……/sarc

  61. Jim on July 3rd, 2010 1:55 pm

    Justyn,
    Are you kidding me? Please tell me you’re joking. My daughter has covered basic American history a couple of times now and she’s just in 5th grade. They covered it at least in 4th and 5th grade. Maybe even 3rd (I don’t remember).

  62. Timothy on July 3rd, 2010 2:04 pm

    @Carol

    I’d bet my savings account that 95% plus of Tea Party members know who we declared independence from. I also bet that a majority of them would know basic economic principles. I’d also bet that the Tea Party would poll higher on the differences between Austrian and Keynesian economics than the general public.

  63. Jason on July 3rd, 2010 2:28 pm

    ‘The phrase [begs the question] means to base an answer on an assumption that itself is unproven.”

    Don’t be overly prideful of your own education, otherwise you make a fool of yourself by correcting others with errors of your own.

    Begging the question means assuming as a premise the conclusion of your argument.

  64. Danzo on July 3rd, 2010 2:29 pm

    Yes, between the two errors by Marist Poll:
    1. England
    2. Begs the Question

    Marist Poll certainly gets an F. Or maybe King George III was King of Great Britain?

    LOL

  65. steelman on July 3rd, 2010 2:40 pm

    26%? I didn’t know Pelosi had that many relatives.

  66. J on July 3rd, 2010 3:07 pm

    Justyn, if you didn’t learn this in school, then your school might be an example of what is wrong with America’s education system. I don’t consider any of the schools I went to to be particularly great, but I definitely learned that in elementary, middle and high school history. But you raise a point that even if a person didn’t learn it in school, you don’t have to pay THAT much attention to culture to know the answer.

    @1 Are you kidding?

  67. Moira on July 3rd, 2010 3:21 pm

    @grand… Having a “non-Eurocentric view” is an irrelevant rationalization for people in this country to not know who the 13 American colonies revolted against. In fact, it doesn’t require a “Eurocentric view” at all since it involved North America. By the way, Native Americans were actively involved during the Revolutionary War – on BOTH sides. And also, it’s HERE, not “hear,’ genius…

  68. North Star on July 3rd, 2010 3:56 pm

    Likely the ones who think the colonies separated from either China, France etc. were Democrats.

  69. George on July 3rd, 2010 4:00 pm

    The scary point for me is if those 26% vote?

  70. Jim on July 3rd, 2010 4:23 pm

    grand said: “Or it could be that 26% of respondents have a non-Euro-centric view of history. For instance, how does a Native American interpret the concept of US independence? Their people were hear (sic) first, and their lands were taken away from them. They might interpret the question very differently, and may even find the suggestion of US ‘independence’ offensive.”

    Well, let’s look at this. The UNITED STATES were not the Native Americans. People weren’t “hear” first but rather here first.

    grand also said: “Consider also that many parts of the US were formerly colonies of other nations, in particular, the French and Spanish, and rather than ‘winning their independence’ they were purchased or won in other wars (see for instance: The Louisiana Territory, Texas, Alaska).”

    Well, it is true those places were NOT part of the new UNITED STATES until AFTER the revolution. But they HAVE been part of the UNITED STATES for a very long time. Not many people are alive today when only a few of these were not. So I really think your “arguments” are full of steaming male bovine refuse.

  71. JD on July 3rd, 2010 4:47 pm

    Grand.

    You’re argument about the “Eurocentric” view of the world is completely off base. If somebody is living in the modern day united states, they have no excuse to not know the answer to this simple question.

    The whole “I’m an indian and I’m offended that the US is an independent country” doesn’t hold water. It’s been a country (one of the worlds most influential) for well over 200 years. Indians in our country have far more exposure to the US government that most other citizens.

    It’s not like we have a large aboriginal population living in isolation in distant jungles or anything.

    You know as well as I do that most of those who didn’t know were just ignorant ghetto queens who dropped out of 6th grade.

  72. Happy Fourth of July. And if you weren’t planning on drinking… | RedState on July 3rd, 2010 4:54 pm

    [...] if that’s not enough, check out Marist: There’s good news for American education. About three-quarters of residents — 74% — know the [...]

  73. Texan99 on July 3rd, 2010 4:59 pm

    What I think is funnier than the ignorance of 26% of the respondents is the eagerness of commenters here to explain it away, as if some answer other than “England” showed a heightened nuance rather than pure-D dumbness. You know, what if they got all wrapped up in the concept of the Louisiana Purchase or something, because their grasp of history was so deep, broad, sophisticated, and sensitive? That’s the ticket, ace. Keep #^*&ing that chicken.

  74. Happy Fourth of July. And if you weren’t planning on drinking… « 908 Straight St… on July 3rd, 2010 4:59 pm

    [...] if that’s not enough, check out Marist: There’s good news for American education. About three-quarters of residents — 74% — know the [...]

  75. Gregory Wahl on July 3rd, 2010 5:08 pm

    Most of the above answers miss an obvious point: The answer to the question — i.e., the country from which we declared independence — can be found in . . . . (drum roll) . . . . . . the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE! Even a cursory reading of this one-page document will quickly reveal that it is aimed at the King of Great Britain.

  76. Sperby Piner on July 3rd, 2010 5:50 pm

    What is really alarming is that these people vote and procreate.

  77. Ezra on July 3rd, 2010 6:22 pm

    @Phil No, the name “United Kingdom of Great Britain” is sometimes applied retroactively, but the Acts of Union provided that “the two kingdoms of Scotland and England shall, . . . for ever after, be united into one kingdom by the name of Great Britain.”

    I realize some people like to flaunt the fact that the know the difference between “England,” “Great Britain,” and “the United Kingdom,” but there’s a time and a place. And the time in question is before 1800.

  78. Sacramento Running News | Hey! It’s Independence Day! on July 3rd, 2010 6:30 pm

    [...] you think “Hey!  It’s Independence Day!” You bask in the knowledge that you are one of the 74% of Americans who know what country our founding fathers declared independence from.  So you decide to grab that dog and [...]

  79. Marc on July 3rd, 2010 7:06 pm

    Back in the late 1980s roughly only 66% of all Seniors graduating from US High Schools could name the Capital of the United States of America. This 26% is well within that error.

  80. fred on July 3rd, 2010 8:04 pm

    yeah dude. was kidding. kinda got a chuckle from the one about the “eurocentric education”. and i agree with you. on all of what you said. and i dont think i am a liberal. but some days i wonder. but i think it is “liberals” more than the converse, that tend to apply labels like that. and those labels i think separate us, more than they unify us.

  81. John H on July 3rd, 2010 8:31 pm

    I would have answered “England” Would that have been marked “wrong”? And what if someone answered “UK”? Did the answer need to be “Great Britain” to be considered correct?

  82. America Declared its Independence from _______. « Pachyderms and Jackasses on July 3rd, 2010 9:13 pm

    [...] America Declared its Independence from _______. In Obama, polls on July 3, 2010 at 9:13 pm From which country did the United States win its independence?  One in four Americans don’t know that the correct answer is Great Britain, and one in five Americans don’t have any clue at all.  This is according to a new poll conducted by Marist Poll. [...]

  83. More than one-quarter don’t know who US gained independence from : Federal Jack on July 3rd, 2010 10:42 pm

    [...] Overall, 20 percent of the population answered “not sure” to the question, while six percent declared it to be a country other than Great Britain. “Among the countries mentioned are France, China, Japan, Mexico, and Spain,” Marist reports. [...]

  84. FredD on July 4th, 2010 12:09 am

    Don’t put too much stock in polls like this one. It’s possible that it shows exactly what it claims, but more likely than not there’s another explanation. About five years ago I saw a poll – that was reproduced in a textbook on US government – that said about 25% of college-age Americans could not locate the US on a globe. It wasn’t until a few months later that I looked into the matter in more detail and found that people from other countries had comparable and equally appalling rates. Now you could assume from that study and this one and perhaps South Park’s 9/11-conspiracy conspiracy episode that “one fourth of America is retarded.” Or you could remain skeptical of polls and learn a bit more before jumping to conclusions.

  85. 4th of July News Round-Up | Taylor Marsh – TaylorMarsh.com – News, Opinion and Weblog on Progressive Politics on July 4th, 2010 9:03 am

    [...] educated are Americans regarding their own history? Here’s the good news- about 74% of people can name the country that America declared independence from in 1776. Here’s [...]

  86. Daniel Cecil on July 4th, 2010 10:31 am

    It’s simply amazing that you can’t present any fact of any kind in this country without the Republicans and Democrats turning it into fodder for yet another of their irrelevant little slapfights.

  87. More than one-quarter don’t know who US gained independence from | Dark Politricks on July 4th, 2010 10:57 am

    [...] Overall, 20 percent of the population answered “not sure” to the question, while six percent declared it to be a country other than Great Britain. “Among the countries mentioned are France, China, Japan, Mexico, and Spain,” Marist reports. [...]

  88. A Native American on July 4th, 2010 2:41 pm

    None of you seem to know anything about Native Americans.

    We are neither grossly uneducated, nor nonexistent. Bill R. you sound like some kind of American Zionist— you are one scary white dude. Newsflash: manifest destiny is no longer entitled by the law.

    And for the record, there are some reservations that are VERY isolated, where there are older folks who still don’t speak English (often as a matter of Pride in their assorted traditional languages), but even those reservations have schools, and generally they are really thinning out, as people leave them for other places that are not so completely founded upon their marginalization.

    Sorry to tell you folks, we walk among you. I know. It’s a real downer.

    And to bring up yet another point, can anyone tell me why it’s even important to know this particular fact about the United States, other than the fact that most people do? What is its essential relevance to anything? Who really cares? What could this piece of information possibly do for you, other than get you through the “complete moron” level of a quiz show.

  89. boatboy_srq on July 4th, 2010 3:30 pm

    Actually there is some reason for the confusion, at least in the West. Both California and Texas gained their independence from Mexico, and became independent republics before joining the United States, one a territory won and ceded to the US in the Mexican-American War and the other a recent (peaceful) addition to the US whose annexation sparked that conflict. It doesn’t excuse not knowing from which nation the original 13 colonies declared independence, but it would explain the confusion for any who read or heard the question as “from what country did WE win our independence,” as residents of those states would be aware of their own state’s history as much as that of the US itself.

  90. Croz on July 4th, 2010 3:52 pm

    The poll is not perfect but it does speak to some things.

    Why did 40% of people age 18-29 not know this?
    Why do 33% of women not know this?
    Why do people with less income score worse than people with more?
    Why do non white people score worse than those that are white?

    What can we do as a nation to correct these questions and others?

    I do think history matters. If we don’t learn we are doomed to repeat. I wonder how many people would correctly answer the question “who was the united states major ally in the war for independance from great britan?”

  91. ABVision on July 4th, 2010 4:43 pm

    Actually studies show that liberals ARE more intelligent than conservatives. So, chances are Obama supporters would win out!

    SEE LINK

    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1968042,00.html

  92. Buck Turgidson on July 4th, 2010 5:04 pm

    I’d like to know what the actual question was and what options were given in what order. It makes ALL the difference! But I still can’t laugh hard enough that the highest fraction of people who gave the wrong or uncertain (also wrong) answer are in the South, by a wide margin. Expect the full results to show up on Fox News any second now–but not the bit about the South.

  93. Dreww on July 4th, 2010 5:28 pm

    I can’t believe how ridiculous everyones comments are on the subject. Because no one has really said anything at all, just calling out each others verbal flubs.

    Stats are dumb and you guys are all wasting your time

  94. Tom on July 4th, 2010 5:30 pm

    I would be interested in more insight into the demographics of the 26%. There have been no shortage of people here assuming that the 26% are representative of people that disagree with them. (By the way it’s a statistical certainty that even if all of the 26% were eligible to vote most of them did not.) I think it would be instructive, for example, to know the break down by public/private/home school. I would suggest that to the extent the respondents were taught in private schools or home schooled the information does not reflect anything about any level of Government (except that we have the freedom to make bad education decisions for our children). To the extent that the respondents were educated in the American public schools, I would suggest that every single public school in the country has this fact in their curriculum, so if the students didn’t learn or retain that fact it that is a failure of the schools to meet their goals. Failure to meet those goals could result from a lot of things but I can’t think of one possible reason that can’t be classified as “lack of resources.” So I would focus on people that think vouchers help schools, or that buying bombs is more important than hiring teachers, or that there’s no harm in taking time out of the curriculum to teach “creation science” in addition to biology should consider the practical ramifications of their abstract political philosophy.

  95. adam on July 4th, 2010 6:15 pm

    That’s just pathetic

  96. Ralph on July 4th, 2010 6:30 pm

    Thanks to Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum, the U.S. declared its independence from the aliens on July 4th, 1996. What more do you want to know?

  97. Ralph on July 4th, 2010 6:31 pm

    Now we are independent from China! No more Chinese war bonds!

  98. Ralph on July 4th, 2010 6:32 pm

    The U.S. cast off the chains of the Nicaraguan Empire in 1987 in the Battle of the Contras. Don’t you remember?

  99. American on July 4th, 2010 11:51 pm

    Is Northern Ireland considered part of your island of Great Britain Beefeater? Last time I checked the Brits still think so and yet water needs to be crossed to get there from England. If you’re going to be a wise ass do a bit of research.

  100. true religion on July 5th, 2010 12:08 am

    The authority of the survey

  101. Stone cold on July 5th, 2010 12:57 am

    It’s not a matter of liberals like many extremists would suggest. Most of you conservatives were educated in the liberal public schhol system. The truth is that there are morons and plain old fashioned dummies on both ends of the political spectrum. I’ve lived the Appalachian heartland of conservativsim and the liberal cites of the east coast. Dumbness is rampant everywhere.

  102. Happy 4th of July to 74% of You « Resolute Determination on July 5th, 2010 2:02 am

    [...] 4, 2010 by C.R. According to a recent Marist Poll the other 26% of you are morons: There’s good news for American education.  About three-quarters [...]

  103. cd on July 5th, 2010 3:15 am

    is it stupidity? … un-educated? …or Attention Deficit Disorder – AKA: a great excuse to never have to listen yet elicit sympathy.

    PS – the person who spoke about meanings of words changing is right …’absolutely’ is the new ‘yes’ …just an observation.

  104. Billy on July 5th, 2010 3:18 am

    It is simple, yes people are that stupid. Yes people will defend the stupidity with nonsense. No matter who you vote for there will be someone to shoot you down for it.
    @JDW are you walking down the streets of Detroit or what? Not everyone who lives in the inner city would respond like that but I hope next time you are in a city you don’t make it back out.

    Also Obama is just the same old presidents with a new paint job. Haters gonna hate that’s all, get over it people and do something productive.

  105. Dude on July 5th, 2010 3:56 am

    @ most of the comments here- It seems very unlikely that there is any political demographic that performed better/worse than any other on this poll. If you are convinced that liberals or Obama voters are less intelligent than you, then I’d point out that you are engaging in the same snobbish type of “elitism” that you conservatives so often complain about from liberals. Personally I find your hypocrisy quite funny!

  106. Colin McNaull on July 5th, 2010 6:51 am

    We citizens must demand that history be taught in our schools.

    There is a benefit to required curricula.

    Most frightening thing about the 26% who do not know that we fought to achieve independence from Great Britain is that they vote.

  107. Yes, I Love My Country « The Introverted Atheist on July 5th, 2010 1:45 pm

    [...] who we’re celebrating our independence from this weekend, by the way (although 26% of us apparently do not know this) – and I think what the founding fathers had in mind is that they didn’t want any one [...]

  108. Jerry on July 5th, 2010 1:52 pm

    Most amusing. I’m not a historian. I’m a mathematician. Yes, these polls all have inaccuracies, but if someone is educated enough and smart enough to realize that the name of the entity we declared independence from could be argued, then they are also smart enough to realize that the answer on the multiple-choice poll that’s closest to correct is Great Britain. The results of the poll can only be explained by the ignorance of some of those taking it. Also, look at the poll by region – correct answers were highest in the northeast and lowest in the south. One comment argued that the 26% ignorant were democrats, but the republican states of the south had 32% wrong answers. Incidentally, I’d be glad to take Carol’s be that Obama voters don’t know the answer (you can’t be a “liberal elitist” without some education – we sure aren’t elite based on income) and I’ve heard tea partiers declare that the census was against the constitution.

  109. SP on July 5th, 2010 2:24 pm

    All these attacks on liberals in this forum are ridiculous. There are ignorant conservatives and liberals, and there are exceptionally intelligent conservatives and liberals. And all this talk about the younger generation being more unintelligent is ridiculous too. Stereotyping is the easiest way to get you into trouble. It’s like saying all Americans are fat and all the French are rude. They’re not. I happen to be a 19 year old liberal from a pretty well off family that probably has a higher IQ than a lot of the people who are commenting on this forum and I know who the colonies declared independence from and when the declared it. Don’t generalize and attack others with your own convoluted ideas of right and wrong. I just makes you look like an ignorant bigot, whether or not you know the answer to the poll question.

  110. Fidel Castro on July 5th, 2010 4:25 pm

    Americanos are stupido gringos.

  111. Mike M on July 5th, 2010 7:18 pm

    If this poll is actually correct and they didn’t accidentally contact foreign citizens by mistake then all I can say is that now I understand why the United States is not even ranked in the top 50% in international polls of student education. I’m now actually embarassed to say I’m an American. This is depressing!

  112. Arrow on July 5th, 2010 7:50 pm

    The United States and our Education is lost. The effort started years ago to hide our history and make up crap as they go. The State of Texas is demanding our real history and not this crap they call history now. The Library of Congress holds the histroy of this nation but socialist and communist want nothing more than to make this country “The Dumb Country”. By dumbing America down the government can control people better. An intelligent Patriot knows the value of freedom and those are a dying breed unless this country wakes up.

  113. Pete on July 5th, 2010 8:15 pm

    Well possibly several of these people were illegals and maybe more have just immigrated and possibly a few are people who have never had any education and have know idea what just happened.

  114. Wow on July 5th, 2010 10:57 pm

    Well, 74% decided to answer, 20% hung up the phone out of annoyance and 6% gave a silly answer to amuse themselves. Scientific explanation to this ridiculous survey.

  115. tgbwc on July 5th, 2010 11:57 pm

    The article reads, “6%… thought the U.S. separated from another nation.”
    What am I missing? How were those 6% incorrect? Is England not another nation?

  116. diego on July 6th, 2010 1:33 am

    Maybe the residents polled were not even Americans. We have foreign residents. including diplomats, not to mention the countless illegals. To be meaningful, the poll should have been conducted with Americans. Or perhaps has the pollster forgotten the difference between citizen and resident.

  117. Declaration Day, not Independence Day « Sister Artemis: Journal on July 6th, 2010 4:45 am

    [...] On July 4th 1776, We the People declared our Independence from Britain (should there be any question of that in my contemporaries minds).  [...]

  118. PST on July 6th, 2010 7:39 pm

    Can someone from Marist tell us if this was a multiple choice question? If so, what were the choices? If not, what answers were treated as equivalent to Great Britain?

    I honestly have to say that this would have looked like a trick question to me, had I been one of the people polled. Of course I know that the United States declared independence in 1776 from an island kingdom with its capital in London. But what was the name of that kingdom in then? I know now that from 1707 through 1800 it was the Kingdom of Great Britain, but I didn’t know that last week. There must be many Americans who would answer England or United Kingdom. I would be surprised if 74 percent got this right without multiple choices. Please, Marist, tell us more about the poll.

  119. Regina 1959 on July 7th, 2010 9:03 am

    Our educational system has been very poor these past three decades, so it is not surprising that they don’t know their history. Besides, one young girl I worked with in the 90′s told me point blank when I asked her about something on history, her answer I’ll never forget was, “Oh, that happened was before I was born.” Meaning, it didn’t count in her view. I told her it was before I was born as well. You see to her and others I guess, history only starts at the time of your particular birth. How unfortunate for these students not to know history, they are doomed to repeat the errors of the past because they never learned.

  120. Regina 1959 on July 7th, 2010 9:06 am

    To Diego: Even if it was Europeans that answered the survey/poll, Europeans are far more educated and would know the answer to that question very easily.

  121. A call to arms… « Save 1776 on July 7th, 2010 1:13 pm

    [...] residents of this country do not know why we have a celebration on the Fourth of July.  In fact, Marist Poll reports that 20% of residents had no clue who America declared independence from, and 6% named a [...]

  122. Faith & Action » Blog Archive » Did The U.S. Declare Independence From China? on July 8th, 2010 3:49 pm

    [...] For more on the Marist Poll, click here. [...]

  123. Zack on July 8th, 2010 4:28 pm

    Grand has a good point.
    Don’t take ANY poll for face value…. especially coming from a Keith Olberman who would say anything about anyone to get a taste of higher ratings.

  124. Ignorance is Bliss? No. Ignorance is Ignorance. | Grassroots in Nebraska on July 9th, 2010 12:22 pm

    [...] because we’re lazy and uninformed.  Twenty-six percent of the persons responding to a recent poll did not know that the United States achieved its independence from Great Britain.  Six percent [...]

  125. TPP Weekly Rewind : The Public Philosopher on July 9th, 2010 5:52 pm

    [...] Apparently, 26% of American residents do not know that US declared its independence from Great Britain [...]

  126. Paw1500t-7v on July 10th, 2010 2:52 pm

    Norther Ireland officially belongs to the United Kingdom. Otherwise interesting to follow this discussion.. : -)

  127. PST on July 12th, 2010 12:00 pm

    Paw1500t-7v noted that Northern Ireland officially belongs to the United Kingdom. True enough, now, but there was nothing called the United Kingdom until January 1, 1801. At the time of the American Revolution, there was just a Kingdom of Great Britain. The King of Great Britain was also the King of Ireland, but the kingdoms were legally separate. All of which contributes to the possibility that some people answered “don’t know” because they were confused about nomenclature, not because they didn’t know that the United States gained independence from some variant on England/Great Britain/UK. I wish someone from Marist would tell us if the poll was multiple choice, and if so, what the choices were.

  128. 74% know the U.S. declared its independence from Great Britain in 1776 - Dateline Zero on July 15th, 2010 1:01 pm

    [...] at around Independence Day. What do the other 26% think the U.S. declared independence from? France, China, Japan, Mexico, and Spain. Related [...]

  129. Marist Poll Proves Jay Leno Right « A View from the Right on July 15th, 2010 11:14 pm

    [...] to have something funny to show. Well,… you may be right. But, maybe not. It seems that Marist recently conducted a poll that, if accurate, demonstrates this lack of basic knowledge by Americans about our heritage may [...]

  130. Raven on July 18th, 2010 7:20 pm

    PST, the formal legal beginning date of the United Kingdom was not 1801 but 1707, with the Acts of Union between England and Scotland, under Queen Anne.

    A less formal date, because not legislated, could be set earlier, at the Union of the Crowns in March 1603, when James VI of Scotland became also James I of England, and thereafter styled himself “King of Great Britain…”.

  131. PST on August 5th, 2010 12:30 pm

    Raven, this just goes to show how confusing the poll was, since there doesn’t seem to be agreement on what the kingdom was called between 1707 and 1801. It’s a trivial question of terminology, but it may have led to a misleading poll result if some people answered “Not sure” because of it. I respectfully disagree with you about when the United Kingdom began. There were Acts of Union in 1707 and 1800 (effective 1/1/1801), but the first of these — although it united two kingdoms — did not result in a kingdom with the word United in its name. It was just the Kingdom of Great Britain, and that is the country the U.S. attained independence from. It is interesting, though, that the Wikipedia article on the Kingdom of Great Britain describes the existence of a dispute over which name is proper for that span of years: plain old Kingdom of Great Britain or United Kindom of Great Britain.

  132. shanbo on August 6th, 2010 5:23 pm

    Almost all of these comments are self-righteous and use assumptions, petty defense, or incorrect statements. I’d discuss all 113 of them individually, but I don’t have time.

  133. landing page builder on August 10th, 2010 4:59 am

    Hey there,

    I really don’t know so much about the history of the USA. Could you supply some images regarding on the US history, I am really lack of this information regarding on the history.

  134. Tea Party Conservatives Revere Constitution (Except When They Don’t)media-ocracy | media-ocracy on August 24th, 2010 9:33 am

    [...] the INS test immigrants must pass? (Warning, more than one-fourth of Americans surveyed last summer couldn’t tell you from what country we declared independence in [...]

  135. Matthew, John, Mark « Aldrich Again on September 30th, 2010 9:41 am

    [...] many surveys that find Americans just as lacking in U.S. history knowledge. One, conducted by the Marist Institute for Public Opinion, found 26% did not know from who the U.S. won its independence in 1776. Professors at the [...]

  136. Opposing birth control coverage should be as ridiculous as hating puppies on November 18th, 2010 2:04 pm

    [...] that the sky is blue. Only a slight majority believes that global warming is real and just 74% think that the U.S. got its independence from Great [...]

  137. Fundamental changers « Still Standing on December 1st, 2010 11:59 pm

    [...] center located at Marist College, Poughkeepsie, New York).  The polling data reflects that almost 30 percent of this country’s citizens are unaware of the history of our Republic.  As pointed out in my article “Who is ignorant, Howard?” (see below), people being [...]

  138. Polling the Ignorant about the Insane | his vorpal sword on January 12th, 2011 2:09 pm

    [...] this: 7/2: Don’t Know Much About History? July 2, 2010 by Marist [...]

  139. Lizette Marucci on February 28th, 2011 12:06 am

    I wanted to jot down a small note to appreciate you for all the splendid hints you are giving out here. My long internet look up has finally been paid with sensible ideas to go over with my family members. I ‘d state that that many of us website visitors actually are quite lucky to live in a wonderful place with very many lovely individuals with helpful concepts. I feel extremely lucky to have discovered your entire weblog and look forward to tons of more cool times reading here. Thank you again for all the details.

  140. How to teach children spans of time | Reading Kingdom Blog on March 23rd, 2011 1:42 pm

    [...] * According to this Marist poll. [...]

  141. Public History and Light Bulbs « vahistoryonline on April 3rd, 2011 9:06 pm

    [...] for Public Opinion gauged 1,004 US residents’ knowledge about history and civics education in a telephone survey reported in The Washington Post. One standout result was that seventy-four percent of those [...]

  142. Royal wedding is unimportant ‘noise’ to many, gives Niall Ferguson ‘waves of nausea’ (Daily Caller) | Stock Market News - Business & Tech News on April 26th, 2011 1:23 pm

    [...] significance of the British monarchy — let alone any monarchy,” Rudov said, citing a Marist poll that found 26 percent of Americans do not know that America won independence from England. “In my [...]

  143. miss facebook on May 19th, 2011 11:49 am

    Hi there! This post couldn’t be written any better! Reading this post reminds me of my old room mate! He always kept talking about this. I will forward this article to him. Fairly certain he will have a good read. Thanks for sharing!

  144. NJ DWI Lawyer on May 24th, 2011 11:43 pm

    Good content, but honestly.. I think that everyones said the same thing that youve said over and over again. Dont you think its time for something newer, especially for a college site…?

  145. The Secret Action Plan for Everything Profitable | WayneSharer.com on May 29th, 2011 6:47 pm

    [...] poll was taken by Marist Poll and published July 2, [...]

  146. Lyric on July 3rd, 2011 11:42 pm

    The fact that 26% of the respondents to the poll didn’t have an answer or a correct answering is disturbing but even more disturbing and troubling in regard to the health of our nation are the many bigoted, hateful, hostile comments that have been posted. The Republicans hate and denigrate the Democrats and vice versa — unfortunately for our country — we all live here and because of this ongoing unwillingness to attempt to work together to solve problems, we are pulling the country down and destroying it by insulting one another on stupid websites instead of actually DOING something constructive.

  147. Ed Hogan on July 4th, 2011 11:31 am

    Good news for American education when 26% of those polled, did not know from what country the US obtained its independence? That’s more than a quarter of the people polled. That is a standard question, that requires a correct answer, on the citizenship examination given to all who apply for U.S. Citizenship, and the writer of this story thinks that the response from the poll is “good news for american education’? I must have fallen down Alices rabbit hole!

  148. Independence from What? | on July 4th, 2011 5:17 pm

    [...] A recent Marist Poll asked 1003 adults nationwide What year did the United Stated declared its independence? 58% of [...]

  149. Matt Dorana on July 6th, 2011 2:57 am

    Well concidering I’m not American nor am I British.
    I wouldn’t say I studied much in my days, but yet, I knew this, everyone at my office knew this, and heck, I bet even my granny knew this.

  150. Massive Cheating in Atlanta Public Schools | Fellowship of the Minds on July 6th, 2011 8:26 am

    [...] else we know about our declining culture, standards, and our young people. As an example, a Marist Poll found that 1 of 4 Americans (26%) do not even know against which country the American Revolution [...]

  151. PST on July 6th, 2011 12:50 pm

    Matt and Ed, without looking back at the prior discussion, what is the answer? I admit that I wasn’t sure. I knew that it was an island kindom in the North Atlantic off the coast of continental Europe with its capital in London and George III as its king. But that kingdom changed its name and its extent more than once in roughly the 18th century. What was it called in 1776? That’s the tricky part of the question. I don’t think most Americans know this with certainty, and I don’t think that it is particularly ignorant of them not to know.

  152. Independence from What? | CocoaLaFemme on July 12th, 2011 3:13 am

    [...] A recent Marist Poll asked 1003 adults nationwide What year did the United Stated declared its independence? 58% of [...]

  153. F Macleide on August 20th, 2011 11:59 am

    With all the profoundly astute observations about the English language and some of the finer points of history, some people have lost sight of the fact the the question was framed within the context of July 4th.

  154. Wurlitzer on July 4th, 2012 6:01 pm

    Plenty of Saul Alinsky diversionary responses here but the reality of so many being so ignorant of their own country’s history is public education with decades of commie union teachers.

    They have done their best to implement the communist manifesto by destroying as much knowledge of the founding of this country as possible.

    Once they destroyed the knowledge base they proceeded to destroy the founders and then created millions of ignorant students who were then exposed to the numerous communist professors in our colleges and universities.

  155. Peter Spelts on October 7th, 2012 1:10 pm

    “the Books will be used since all can use Ibooks”

  156. The Truth About the Tea Party - Page 7 on October 26th, 2012 10:11 am

    [...] percentage of people who didn't know that the US had declared independence against Great Britain in 1776. Then there is the fact that the Tea Party seems to look a LOT like the Republican Party distilled [...]

  157. Our Independence Day, or merely the 4th of July? | Two Heads are Better Than One on July 4th, 2013 7:49 am

    [...] you answer, you might be interested to learn that in a 2010 poll, 26% of all American respondents did NOT know that we claimed our independence from Great [...]

  158. Dumbing Down The Academy on August 22nd, 2013 10:01 pm

    [...] education. Instead we are left with a population that professes to know more information but can comprehend less about its own cultural past. Check out this great column from the Wall Street [...]

  159. Krystal Huyck on September 20th, 2013 3:33 pm

    I knew we had some dim bulb here in the US but I had no idea to what degree….good to know. I’ll lock my doors more often now.

  160. Are Americans too Preoccupied with Athletes and Celebrities to Care About their Rights? - Downtrend.com on September 27th, 2013 2:38 pm

    [...] that’s not enough, a quarter don’t know which country the US declared its independence [...]

  161. San Antonio Attorneys on November 26th, 2013 12:29 am

    This is a sad reality. Knowing about that country’s past and how it has reacted before could mean the difference between a victory and all out war. History of our country is an ingrained part of each of us.

Feel free to leave a comment...
and oh, if you want a pic to show with your comment, go get a gravatar!